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	<title>Comments on: Webkit vs. Firefox on H264</title>
	<atom:link href="http://briancrescimanno.com/2010/03/19/webkit-vs-firefox-on-h264/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://briancrescimanno.com/2010/03/19/webkit-vs-firefox-on-h264/</link>
	<description>Thoughts on Web Design, Development, and Applications</description>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://briancrescimanno.com/2010/03/19/webkit-vs-firefox-on-h264/comment-page-1/#comment-847</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 20:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briancrescimanno.com/?p=210#comment-847</guid>
		<description>Chromium-not-Chrome, being an open-source project, includes a fairly simplistic method of filtering out H.264 content before passing it on to ffmpeg.  Several of the downstream distributors have bypassed that filtering, so H.264 gets passed down along with the rest.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The argument, I suppose, is that even with the filtering removed, Chromium itself still doesn&#039;t directly include any of the offending codecs, so it still isn&#039;t treading on any patents - ffmpeg might potentially be.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And as for the system on which such a modified Chromium is installed... Well, if the system&#039;s administrator saw fit to install ffmpeg with its full slate of patent-encumbered codecs intact, then she should have already been aware of the patent situation, and had decided that either:&lt;br&gt;1) She has already separately purchased/obtained a legitimate license for the H.264 decoder included in ffmpeg, or&lt;br&gt;2) She lives in a jurisdiction where she thinks H.264 either isn&#039;t patented, or any such patent is invalid, or&lt;br&gt;3) She doesn&#039;t care that she&#039;s violating the patent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chromium-not-Chrome, being an open-source project, includes a fairly simplistic method of filtering out H.264 content before passing it on to ffmpeg.  Several of the downstream distributors have bypassed that filtering, so H.264 gets passed down along with the rest.</p>
<p>The argument, I suppose, is that even with the filtering removed, Chromium itself still doesn&#39;t directly include any of the offending codecs, so it still isn&#39;t treading on any patents &#8211; ffmpeg might potentially be.</p>
<p>And as for the system on which such a modified Chromium is installed&#8230; Well, if the system&#39;s administrator saw fit to install ffmpeg with its full slate of patent-encumbered codecs intact, then she should have already been aware of the patent situation, and had decided that either:<br />1) She has already separately purchased/obtained a legitimate license for the H.264 decoder included in ffmpeg, or<br />2) She lives in a jurisdiction where she thinks H.264 either isn&#39;t patented, or any such patent is invalid, or<br />3) She doesn&#39;t care that she&#39;s violating the patent.</p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://briancrescimanno.com/2010/03/19/webkit-vs-firefox-on-h264/comment-page-1/#comment-1083</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 20:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briancrescimanno.com/?p=210#comment-1083</guid>
		<description>Chromium-not-Chrome, being an open-source project, includes a fairly simplistic method of filtering out H.264 content before passing it on to ffmpeg.  Several of the downstream distributors have bypassed that filtering, so H.264 gets passed down along with the rest.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The argument, I suppose, is that even with the filtering removed, Chromium itself still doesn&#039;t directly include any of the offending codecs, so it still isn&#039;t treading on any patents - ffmpeg might potentially be.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And as for the system on which such a modified Chromium is installed... Well, if the system&#039;s administrator saw fit to install ffmpeg with its full slate of patent-encumbered codecs intact, then she should have already been aware of the patent situation, and had decided that either:&lt;br&gt;1) She has already separately purchased/obtained a legitimate license for the H.264 decoder included in ffmpeg, or&lt;br&gt;2) She lives in a jurisdiction where she thinks H.264 either isn&#039;t patented, or any such patent is invalid, or&lt;br&gt;3) She doesn&#039;t care that she&#039;s violating the patent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chromium-not-Chrome, being an open-source project, includes a fairly simplistic method of filtering out H.264 content before passing it on to ffmpeg.  Several of the downstream distributors have bypassed that filtering, so H.264 gets passed down along with the rest.</p>
<p>The argument, I suppose, is that even with the filtering removed, Chromium itself still doesn&#39;t directly include any of the offending codecs, so it still isn&#39;t treading on any patents &#8211; ffmpeg might potentially be.</p>
<p>And as for the system on which such a modified Chromium is installed&#8230; Well, if the system&#39;s administrator saw fit to install ffmpeg with its full slate of patent-encumbered codecs intact, then she should have already been aware of the patent situation, and had decided that either:<br />1) She has already separately purchased/obtained a legitimate license for the H.264 decoder included in ffmpeg, or<br />2) She lives in a jurisdiction where she thinks H.264 either isn&#39;t patented, or any such patent is invalid, or<br />3) She doesn&#39;t care that she&#39;s violating the patent.</p>
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		<title>By: Jordan</title>
		<link>http://briancrescimanno.com/2010/03/19/webkit-vs-firefox-on-h264/comment-page-1/#comment-833</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:08:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briancrescimanno.com/?p=210#comment-833</guid>
		<description>&gt; Webkit includes support for h264 video.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As someone tried to point out above, this isn&#039;t true. Webkit&#039;s &#039;ports&#039; (that&#039;s Safari, Chrome, Qt, Gtk, etc) are provided with the raw streams from the media engine in Webkit, and it is up to them what to do with it. Safari passes it to Quicktime, which can decode H.264. Chrome passes it to ffmpeg, which can decode H.264 in Chrome-not-Chromium. I think Gtk passes it to Gstreamer, and Qt has its own thing.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The point is that there is NO H.264 decoding in Webkit, That would be a violation of the MPEG-LA&#039;s patents. For Firefox to do something similar to that setup they would have to become closed-source like Safari and Chrome-not-Chromium. I don&#039;t see Mozilla crossing that big red line, no matter what anyone says.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Webkit includes support for h264 video.</p>
<p>As someone tried to point out above, this isn&#39;t true. Webkit&#39;s &#39;ports&#39; (that&#39;s Safari, Chrome, Qt, Gtk, etc) are provided with the raw streams from the media engine in Webkit, and it is up to them what to do with it. Safari passes it to Quicktime, which can decode H.264. Chrome passes it to ffmpeg, which can decode H.264 in Chrome-not-Chromium. I think Gtk passes it to Gstreamer, and Qt has its own thing.</p>
<p>The point is that there is NO H.264 decoding in Webkit, That would be a violation of the MPEG-LA&#39;s patents. For Firefox to do something similar to that setup they would have to become closed-source like Safari and Chrome-not-Chromium. I don&#39;t see Mozilla crossing that big red line, no matter what anyone says.</p>
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		<title>By: Jordan</title>
		<link>http://briancrescimanno.com/2010/03/19/webkit-vs-firefox-on-h264/comment-page-1/#comment-1082</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:08:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briancrescimanno.com/?p=210#comment-1082</guid>
		<description>&gt; Webkit includes support for h264 video.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As someone tried to point out above, this isn&#039;t true. Webkit&#039;s &#039;ports&#039; (that&#039;s Safari, Chrome, Qt, Gtk, etc) are provided with the raw streams from the media engine in Webkit, and it is up to them what to do with it. Safari passes it to Quicktime, which can decode H.264. Chrome passes it to ffmpeg, which can decode H.264 in Chrome-not-Chromium. I think Gtk passes it to Gstreamer, and Qt has its own thing.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The point is that there is NO H.264 decoding in Webkit, That would be a violation of the MPEG-LA&#039;s patents. For Firefox to do something similar to that setup they would have to become closed-source like Safari and Chrome-not-Chromium. I don&#039;t see Mozilla crossing that big red line, no matter what anyone says.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Webkit includes support for h264 video.</p>
<p>As someone tried to point out above, this isn&#39;t true. Webkit&#39;s &#39;ports&#39; (that&#39;s Safari, Chrome, Qt, Gtk, etc) are provided with the raw streams from the media engine in Webkit, and it is up to them what to do with it. Safari passes it to Quicktime, which can decode H.264. Chrome passes it to ffmpeg, which can decode H.264 in Chrome-not-Chromium. I think Gtk passes it to Gstreamer, and Qt has its own thing.</p>
<p>The point is that there is NO H.264 decoding in Webkit, That would be a violation of the MPEG-LA&#39;s patents. For Firefox to do something similar to that setup they would have to become closed-source like Safari and Chrome-not-Chromium. I don&#39;t see Mozilla crossing that big red line, no matter what anyone says.</p>
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		<title>By: Pingu</title>
		<link>http://briancrescimanno.com/2010/03/19/webkit-vs-firefox-on-h264/comment-page-1/#comment-827</link>
		<dc:creator>Pingu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briancrescimanno.com/?p=210#comment-827</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve just read your other posts, which sadly seem quite troll-y, I thought this was a genuine misunderstanding about the interstection of patents and open source software.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You appear to work for a company that distributes H.264 media. Do any of your customers distribute video for business reasons, say recordings of business seminars? What do you tell them about those viewing via Flash that only have licence to view the video for personal and non-commercial reasons?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;ve just read your other posts, which sadly seem quite troll-y, I thought this was a genuine misunderstanding about the interstection of patents and open source software.</p>
<p>You appear to work for a company that distributes H.264 media. Do any of your customers distribute video for business reasons, say recordings of business seminars? What do you tell them about those viewing via Flash that only have licence to view the video for personal and non-commercial reasons?</p>
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		<title>By: Pingu</title>
		<link>http://briancrescimanno.com/2010/03/19/webkit-vs-firefox-on-h264/comment-page-1/#comment-1085</link>
		<dc:creator>Pingu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briancrescimanno.com/?p=210#comment-1085</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve just read your other posts, which sadly seem quite troll-y, I thought this was a genuine misunderstanding about the interstection of patents and open source software.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You appear to work for a company that distributes H.264 media. Do any of your customers distribute video for business reasons, say recordings of business seminars? What do you tell them about those viewing via Flash that only have licence to view the video for personal and non-commercial reasons?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;ve just read your other posts, which sadly seem quite troll-y, I thought this was a genuine misunderstanding about the interstection of patents and open source software.</p>
<p>You appear to work for a company that distributes H.264 media. Do any of your customers distribute video for business reasons, say recordings of business seminars? What do you tell them about those viewing via Flash that only have licence to view the video for personal and non-commercial reasons?</p>
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		<title>By: Pingu</title>
		<link>http://briancrescimanno.com/2010/03/19/webkit-vs-firefox-on-h264/comment-page-1/#comment-1084</link>
		<dc:creator>Pingu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briancrescimanno.com/?p=210#comment-1084</guid>
		<description>You forgot the line:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Webkit passes on the responsibility for purchasing H.264 patent licences to any end-user or project that builds on it.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Firefox passes on Theora code that can be used freely by anyone, for any purpose.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is why even the mighty Google doesn&#039;t support H.264 in Chromium, its webkit based, open source browser, but only in Chrome. And even in Chrome you can only use the H.264 for personal and non-commercial use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You forgot the line:</p>
<p>Webkit passes on the responsibility for purchasing H.264 patent licences to any end-user or project that builds on it.</p>
<p>Firefox passes on Theora code that can be used freely by anyone, for any purpose.</p>
<p>This is why even the mighty Google doesn&#39;t support H.264 in Chromium, its webkit based, open source browser, but only in Chrome. And even in Chrome you can only use the H.264 for personal and non-commercial use.</p>
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		<title>By: Pingu</title>
		<link>http://briancrescimanno.com/2010/03/19/webkit-vs-firefox-on-h264/comment-page-1/#comment-826</link>
		<dc:creator>Pingu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briancrescimanno.com/?p=210#comment-826</guid>
		<description>You forgot the line:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Webkit passes on the responsibility for purchasing H.264 patent licences to any end-user or project that builds on it.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Firefox passes on Theora code that can be used freely by anyone, for any purpose.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is why even the mighty Google doesn&#039;t support H.264 in Chromium, its webkit based, open source browser, but only in Chrome. And even in Chrome you can only use the H.264 for personal and non-commercial use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You forgot the line:</p>
<p>Webkit passes on the responsibility for purchasing H.264 patent licences to any end-user or project that builds on it.</p>
<p>Firefox passes on Theora code that can be used freely by anyone, for any purpose.</p>
<p>This is why even the mighty Google doesn&#39;t support H.264 in Chromium, its webkit based, open source browser, but only in Chrome. And even in Chrome you can only use the H.264 for personal and non-commercial use.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://briancrescimanno.com/2010/03/19/webkit-vs-firefox-on-h264/comment-page-1/#comment-822</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 22:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briancrescimanno.com/?p=210#comment-822</guid>
		<description>Hopefully Google will be both idealist and pragmatist, opening up the VP8 codec from On2 who they recently acquired, thus solving the licencing issues around h264. Then we would have a high quality video codec for all browsers on all platforms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hopefully Google will be both idealist and pragmatist, opening up the VP8 codec from On2 who they recently acquired, thus solving the licencing issues around h264. Then we would have a high quality video codec for all browsers on all platforms.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://briancrescimanno.com/2010/03/19/webkit-vs-firefox-on-h264/comment-page-1/#comment-1087</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 22:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://briancrescimanno.com/?p=210#comment-1087</guid>
		<description>Hopefully Google will be both idealist and pragmatist, opening up the VP8 codec from On2 who they recently acquired, thus solving the licencing issues around h264. Then we would have a high quality video codec for all browsers on all platforms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hopefully Google will be both idealist and pragmatist, opening up the VP8 codec from On2 who they recently acquired, thus solving the licencing issues around h264. Then we would have a high quality video codec for all browsers on all platforms.</p>
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